Monk--A Question

[Diplomat]

Re: More on Buddhism..Becoming a Buddhist

When it comes to religion, though I have a "working knowledge" of most of the major ones, on certain matters I defer to those who know than I do. Plus, I study them primarily to understand what they're about and for comparative apologetic purposes.

[DC]

Re: More on Buddhism..Becoming a Buddhist

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tek_weh_yuhself</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/yahoo.gif[/img] your timing is perfect. was there another thread on this topic ? I rarely come down here because I see the same thing over and over.


preach mi friend preach [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70371-jump.gif[/img] </div></div>

Thinking of venturing into the Buddhism pathway? What's attracting you to this religion/philosophy? Well if you are, that is... [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

Yes, there were a couple of informative threads with Monk adding his personal touch and insights into Buddhism , I believe. Nylah started one. I have to find those threads for you. One is archived, the other I am not sure.

Link #1

[DC]

Re: More on Buddhism..Becoming a Buddhist

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in my opinion and if you understand gotama, he never wanted there to be an 'ism'. every sentient being has within itself the potential to become a Buddha- which means The One Thus Come, or the Awakened One. As an example, the Buddha felt that the best way to achieve enlightenment was to become a part of the monastic community, the Sangha. But when he died, the community quickly devolved and needed governance. So all the teachings the Buddha gave to individuals were codified into a rule set. To show how corruption encroached, the rule set developed into 250 precepts for men, and 500 for women.</div></div>


'Religified'....... [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img], you can coin that one..

So there are certain similar aspects in comparison with christianity, in terms of religious structure. Sangha is more or less, same minds with similar spiritual goals coming together in a communal way. That would be 'church' as we know it in christendom. The purposes are similar, but of course the details different. Wouldn't you say? [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img]

Corruption I also understand.
The original intention and purpose was certainly not an 'ism' or a religious structure as we know it today, but like you said, there are those that will corrupt the pureness of the teachings, whether Buddhism or Christianty. That is readily understood and can attest within christendom also.

Thanks for your input..

Are you referring to Buddha as gotama? Interchangeable words?



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There were Buddhas before him and Buddhas after, Buddhas who never heard of him.</div></div>

What do you mean by this? Can you elaborate a little pls...

[rudemonk]

Re: More on Buddhism..Becoming a Buddhist

sangha = church

the body of people engaged in the pursuit. like christianity it placed an emphasis on reclusion. but this is a different day. in some buddhist traditions the monastic sangha still maintains it's reclusive nature, some encompass renunciate and engaged...but many practice engaged.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Are you referring to Buddha as gotama? Interchangeable words?



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There were Buddhas before him and Buddhas after, Buddhas who never heard of him.</div></div>

What do you mean by this? Can you elaborate a little pls...

</div></div>

The first historical Buddha, the founder, was Gotama Siddhartha Sakyamuni. A Nepalese prince. He established the Four Noble Truths, the Triple Gems, the 8fold path... He is referred to as "the Buddha" but there were many different Buddhas and are many different Buddhas.

You see the whole point is that everyone is a Buddha. Each of us has the Buddha nature, the Buddha mind, the potential to achieve enlightenment and salvation. All of creation actually has this latent ability through the premise of interbeing so that all of creation is sacred. Buddhists carve statues of the Buddha not to worship the Buddha- unless it is corrupted- but to recognize that even this rock or wood will one day achieve. when it rains on a buddhist, or anyone, it is like a baptism in the Jordan.

The Dharma which the Buddha recognized and taught is universal and self evident when one possesses the wisdom to discern it's nature. So naturally he was not the only one to recognize the path. There are countless Buddhas.

[DC]

Re: More on Buddhism..Becoming a Buddhist

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The first historical Buddha, the founder, was Gotama Siddhartha Sakyamuni. A Nepalese prince. He established the Four Noble Truths, the Triple Gems, the 8fold path... He is referred to as "the Buddha" but there were many different Buddhas and are many different Buddhas.

You see the whole point is that everyone is a Buddha. Each of us has the Buddha nature, the Buddha mind, the potential to achieve enlightenment and salvation. All of creation actually has this latent ability through the premise of interbeing so that all of creation is sacred. Buddhists carve statues of the Buddha not to worship the Buddha- unless it is corrupted- but to recognize that even this rock or wood will one day achieve. when it rains on a buddhist, or anyone, it is like a baptism in the Jordan.

The Dharma which the Buddha recognized and taught is universal and self evident when one possesses the wisdom to discern it's nature. So naturally he was not the only one to recognize the path. There are countless Buddhas. </div></div>

Ahhhh, I got it..thanks.

Upon further thinking and once again comparison, I find similarities. In essence, we believe that each human being has that capability of living to their fullest God given potential as a human being. In a way, it is finding out who you are in Christ and then growing and walking in that knowledge on a daily basis. Christians actually means 'little christs', and this is so because one can see that one is adhering to the words of Jesus and following his teachings. That is how a group of believers got the name 'christians' anyways and it has been so ever since.



ETA: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Buddhists carve statues of the Buddha not to worship the Buddha- unless it is corrupted- but to recognize that even this rock or wood will one day achieve.</div></div>

Statues of religious nature generally assumes worship, so this is good to note also.

[rudemonk]

Re: More on Buddhism..Becoming a Buddhist

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Upon further thinking and once again comparison, I find similarities. In essence, we believe that each human being has that capability of living to their fullest God given potential as a human being. In a way, it is finding out who you are in Christ and then growing and walking in that knowledge on a daily basis. Christians actually means 'little christs', and this is so because one can see that one is adhering to the words of Jesus and following his teachings. That is how a group of believers got the name 'christians' anyways and it has been so ever since.
</div></div>

there are without doubt, congruent themes and ideas. two monks, thomas merton, a catholic trappist monk, and a vietnamese zen monk, risked expulsion and excommunication from their respective orders to explore their respective systems and their work was exemplary. the zen monk was Thich Nhat Han.

where a ch'an buddhist would differ from a christian would basically be in regards to attempts to establish yashua's divinity- buddhism wouldn't care- and in general the sacrificial salvation plan for humanity's sins. Ch'an is based on too logical a system to deal with the inconsistencies presented, but maybe other sects would have less problems.

I think also that to many buddhists, at least the ones who I have dealt with, once they have read the gospels they mostly grow puzzled when looking at the texts and then looking at the people, because to them the teachings are quite clear and they often are left scratching their heads.

I am reminded of a ch'an story about a novice monk named Yashida, the rumor or story has it that he was a seminary student.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A student once visited the Zen master Gasan in Tenryuji, one of the five great Zen monasteries in Kyoto, and asked him: "Have you ever read the Christian Bible?" Gasan replied: "No--read it for me."

The student opened the Bible and began to read from the Gospel of Matthew: "And why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not clothed like one of them. . . . So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring worries of its own" (6:28ff.).

Gasan said: "I would say that the man who spoke these words is enlightened."

The student continued his reading: "Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you" (7:7).

Gasan then said: "Wonderful! The man who spoke such words is not far from Buddhahood!"</div></div>

Concordantly there is a stream of contemplative Christianity of which many christians are woefully unaware. Yashua himself was clearly a mendicant renunciate, and this would resonate deeply with any student of Buddhist lineage. I would say Yashua and his disciples were unequivocably congruent to Gotama. Applying the ch'an dialectic reveals a lot of the transcendental aspects of Yashua's teachings.

Like Buddhism, indeed, like all spiritual systems, what is at work is a struggle to reconcile with the universe and become one again. You see, if you accept the idea that there is a God and he is omniscient and omnipotent, then there is no logical way to accept original sin, heaven or hell. From this simple rejection, it becomes readily apparent then to look at the gospels and yashua's teachings in quite a different light. This also makes sense because Yashua himself never speaks about the redemption of original sin or restoring Adam from the fall. I mean, this is glaringly obvious and i think any reasonable person would have to wonder why, if this is the purpose of his ministry and mission, why is he so silent about it when he on several occasions is presented with the perfect opportunity to lay it out, he instead says love god, love thy neighbor, sell all that thou hast, and give to the poor. Then you will have Heaven. Also he mentions and uses people who have already gotten into heaven so there is no need for his sacrifice to get people there...and he repeatedly tells people they are saved before his own sacrifice, free from sin, and to sin no more. I don't think it is fair to label him inconsistent of his own accord.

Where Buddhism and Christianity shine together would be in Yashua's methodically gorgeous transcendental instructions- the kingdom is at hand, within, the mustard seed, compassion, most of the parables, unity with the Father/Universe, etc.

So to Buddhism, divinity salvation would be weird, and to Christians reincarnation, the law of karma, no need for a God/saviour to convey unity, that would probably be a little weird.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Statues of religious nature generally assumes worship, so this is good to note also.
</div></div>

yeah, in a sense it reminded me a lot of catholics because they love their statuary and often lay practitioners probably get a little confused about using the imagery as a focal point of their prayer.