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Can a person fall from grace?

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  • Can a person fall from grace?

    Can a sinner reach the place in sin where God will not pardon him or her? My aunt’s husband was a vile sinner. He hurt so many people until the people banned together and employed the service of couple of wizards. The wizards came to his house, throw him a rope, and told him to hang himself. He hanged himself two times and some how miraculously escaped. I was called in to pray with him. We both prayed and cry. He could not forgive himself for what he has done to people, so he finally hanged himself the third time. This time he died. When I was little, I hit one of his dogs, he told me that by twelve noon, my cutlass is going to chop me up, and so it was. However, now it was his time to take the count.

    http://www.rtbpms.com/stopwastingtime.html
    A Mystic Christian: Bachelor in theology, Masters in Christians counseling.

  • #2
    Re: Can a person fall from grace?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DrJames</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can a sinner reach the place in sin where God will not pardon him or her? My aunt’s husband was a vile sinner. He hurt so many people until the people banned together and employed the service of couple of wizards. The wizards came to his house, throw him a rope, and told him to hang himself. He hanged himself two times and some how miraculously escaped. I was called in to pray with him. We both prayed and cry. He could not forgive himself for what he has done to people, so he finally hanged himself the third time. This time he died. When I was little, I hit one of his dogs, he told me that by twelve noon, my cutlass is going to chop me up, and so it was. However, now it was his time to take the count.

    http://www.rtbpms.com/stopwastingtime.html </div></div>

    LOL!!!

    So dude tried to hang himself because someone told him to? That's one pile of assness if I ever heard any.
    &quot;Sell the Vatican, feed the world&quot;

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Can a person fall from grace?

      Forget that, I'd love to hear this story: "When I was little, I hit one of his dogs, he told me that by twelve noon, my cutlass is going to chop me up, and so it was." [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]
      aka ChurchDude. I want that moniker back! Until then....

      "Sometimes you have to let go to see if there was anything worth holding on to"
      ~ Anon

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Can a person fall from grace?

        [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70388-shameonyou.gif[/img] ((noh lissen to dem yahh Dr. J)) [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]..but still, come and indulge us any how....

        To anyone, not just Dr.J
        I guess the bigger question is, seeing that he committed suicide, would you say he forfeited receiving grace because he killed himself?
        I am thinking...do you smell smoke?

        FKA-DC

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Can a person fall from grace?

          <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To anyone, not just Dr.J
          I guess the bigger question is, seeing that he committed suicide, would you say he forfeited receiving grace because he killed himself?</div></div>
          I really don't believe anyone can answer that question with absolute certainty either way, however one could argue that grace is a gift extended by God and not something we can earn or forfeit.
          aka ChurchDude. I want that moniker back! Until then....

          "Sometimes you have to let go to see if there was anything worth holding on to"
          ~ Anon

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Can a person fall from grace?

            <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forget that, I'd love to hear this story: "When I was little, I hit one of his dogs, he told me that by twelve noon, my cutlass is going to chop me up, and so it was." [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img] </div></div>

            Pardon me! Why are you here if you were chopped up? When I was a child in JA, two farmers were in mashate fight and the whole town went to see the the dead man who was chopped up.

            The bible say thou shall not kill so if you kill yourself you didn't get the chance to ask for forgiveness. God's kingdom is holy thus unrepented spirit can't enter. If hell is real I know my dad is there at the hottest part with Hitler and that's none of my concerns nor should you about your uncle. Instead, be concern about yourself and those who are still alive.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Can a person fall from grace?

              <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: foolya</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forget that, I'd love to hear this story: "When I was little, I hit one of his dogs, he told me that by twelve noon, my cutlass is going to chop me up, and so it was." [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img] </div></div>

              Pardon me! Why are you here if you were chopped up? When I was a child in JA, two farmers were in mashate fight and the whole town went to see the the dead man who was chopped up.

              The bible say thou shall not kill so if you kill yourself you didn't get the chance to ask for forgiveness. God's kingdom is holy thus unrepented spirit can't enter. If hell is real I know my dad is there at the hottest part with Hitler and that's none of my concerns nor should you about your uncle. Instead, be concern about yourself and those who are still alive. </div></div> You certainly are not a Mormon, otherwise you would be responsible for your whole family getting into those pearly gates. Even those who preceed you.
              It is all or nothing....at least that how they play it.
              Join me as members of the church of LOVE,and let us change the world, one good deed at a time.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Can a person fall from grace?

                <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To anyone, not just Dr.J
                I guess the bigger question is, seeing that he committed suicide, would you say he forfeited receiving grace because he killed himself?</div></div>
                I really don't believe anyone can answer that question with absolute certainty either way, however one could argue that grace is a gift extended by God and not something we can earn or forfeit. </div></div> sumple Logic tells you that this question can be easily answered if we believe that "God will always forgive,if the person asking repents after they do the act.
                Now ther is onoy one act that a person can do and not able to ask forgiveness after it is done. And that id suicide. since one cannot repend afyter death. This is physucally impossible,and one cannot repend before the act,because that is also psycally impossible. So simple logic say if gof forgoves all who repent after the act,and this act makes it impossible to repent,so that one can be forgiven. It follows that for this sin one cannot be forgoiven by God.
                It also follows that ther is no other act that can be done after which one cannot repent. So there is no other sin for which one cannot be forgiven. Since all other actsallows the person tthe opportunity to repent after such acts.
                Join me as members of the church of LOVE,and let us change the world, one good deed at a time.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Can a person fall from grace?

                  The problem is I do not believe you can apply "simple logic" to the situation under discussion. One cannot speak of grace without speaking of mercy, and who is to say where God applies the latter? In Matt 9:1 we read "And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee." There is no record the man asked for forgiveness for anything, so he was the recipient of both grace and mercy. Likewise, there is no record that the woman caught in the act of adultery asked for forgiveness, yet Jesus made it clear to her that He did not condemn her for the act. Another instance of grace and mercy. The thief on the cross was also ushered into paradise without asking for forgiveness (Luke 23:39-43).

                  Grace is a gift; there's nothing we can do (even if we ask a thousand times) to earn it.
                  aka ChurchDude. I want that moniker back! Until then....

                  "Sometimes you have to let go to see if there was anything worth holding on to"
                  ~ Anon

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Can a person fall from grace?

                    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The problem is I do not believe you can apply "simple logic" to the situation under discussion. One cannot speak of grace without speaking of mercy, and who is to say where God applies the latter? In Matt 9:1 we read "And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee." There is no record the man asked for forgiveness for anything, so he was the recipient of both grace and mercy. Likewise, there is no record that the woman caught in the act of adultery asked for forgiveness, yet Jesus made it clear to her that He did not condemn her for the act. Another instance of grace and mercy. The thief on the cross was also ushered into paradise without asking for forgiveness (Luke 23:39-43).

                    Grace is a gift; there's nothing we can do (even if we ask a thousand times) to earn it. </div></div>
                    Do you believe that Jesus could read what he was thinking,and forgiveness does not have to be verbally spoken,but done in the mind? Didn't Jesus say to him that "his sin was forgiven'? Sound like Jesus heard somthing why he replied thus to me. But that is me an my looking for logic in things.
                    DId the theif on the cross ask for forgiveness,after or before death? Does the scripture support
                    one ask for forgiveness after death?? Does the scripture support God granting mercy to a person who never ask forgiveness? Does the scripture support God granting mercy to a person who never ask foprgiveness?
                    Is it possible to asl forgivemness after one is dead??
                    Join me as members of the church of LOVE,and let us change the world, one good deed at a time.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Can a person fall from grace?

                      <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70388-shameonyou.gif[/img] ((noh lissen to dem yahh Dr. J)) [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]..but still, come and indulge us any how....

                      To anyone, not just Dr.J
                      I guess the bigger question is, seeing that he committed suicide, would you say he forfeited receiving grace because he killed himself?
                      </div></div>

                      Another perspective from GotQuestions.Org. I was actually trying to find a specific scripture and came across this. Will post it if I find it.

                      "What is the Christian view of suicide? What does the Bible say about suicide?"

                      According to the Bible, whether a person commits suicide is not what determines whether he or she gains entrance into heaven. If an unsaved person commits suicide, he or she has done nothing but “expedite” his or her journey to the lake of fire. However, the person who committed suicide will ultimately be in hell for rejecting salvation through Christ, not because he or she committed suicide. The Bible mentions five specific people who committed suicide: Abimelech (Judges 9:54), Saul (1 Samuel 31:4), Saul's armor-bearer (1 Samuel 31:4-6), Ahithophel (2 Samuel 17:23), Zimri (1 Kings 16:18), and Judas (Matthew 27:5). All of them were wicked, evil, sinful men (not enough is said regarding Saul's armor-bearer to make a judgment as to his character). Some consider Samson an instance of suicide (Judges 16:26-31), but Samson's goal was to kill the Philistines, not himself. The Bible views suicide as equal to murder – that’s what it is – self-murder. God is the One who is to decide when and how a person should die. To take that power into your own hands, according to the Bible, is blasphemy to God.

                      What does the Bible say about a Christian who commits suicide? I do not believe that a Christian who commits suicide will lose salvation and go to hell. The Bible teaches that from the moment a person truly believes in Christ, he or she is eternally secure (John 3:16). According to the Bible, Christians can know beyond any doubt that they possess eternal life no matter what happens. “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God” (1 John 5:13). Nothing can separate a Christian from God’s love! “For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 8:38-39). If no “created thing” can separate a Christian from God’s love, and even a Christian who commits suicide is a “created thing,” then not even suicide can separate him from God’s love. Jesus died for all of our sins...and if a true Christian were to, in a time of spiritual attack and weakness, commit suicide - that would be a sin that Jesus died for.

                      This is not to say that suicide is not a serious sin against God. According to the Bible, suicide is murder; it is always wrong. I would have serious doubts about the genuineness of faith of anyone who claimed to be a Christian yet committed suicide. There is no circumstance that can justify someone, especially a Christian, taking his or her own life. Christians are called to live their lives for God – the decision on when to die is God’s and God’s alone. Perhaps a good way to illustrate suicide for a Christian would be from the Book of Esther. The Persians had a law that anyone who came before the king uninvited could be put to death unless the king extended his scepter towards the person - indicating mercy. Suicide for a Christian would be forcing your way in to see the King instead of waiting for Him to summon you. He will point His scepter towards you, sparing your eternal life, but that does not mean He is happy with you. Although it is not describing suicide, the Bible verse 1 Corinthians 3:15 is probably a good description of what happens to a Christian who commits suicide: “He himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.”

                      Source
                      I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had absolutely no other place to go. -- Abraham Lincoln

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Can a person fall from grace?

                        <span style='font-size: 14pt'> The Bible teaches that from the moment a person truly believes in Christ, he or she is eternally secure (John 3:16 According to the Bible, Christians can know beyond any doubt that they possess eternal life no matter what happens. “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,</span>

                        So You want to tell me that this author really believe that a

                        christian can do anything and then end up the same place as

                        those who try and us successful at keeping Gods laws, as long as he really believe?

                        So you mean that this author really belueve that if a christian really beileve in God,he can do such an act as commit suicide?

                        You mean that he does not rely on God ,but take his life instead,and still believe in God at that time?

                        He/she was either drunk hwen he was writiung this or he does not really belueve the tennets of Christianity.

                        No wonder they practice so much deviant behavior and bring dusrepute to the religion.
                        Join me as members of the church of LOVE,and let us change the world, one good deed at a time.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Can a person fall from grace?

                          <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compry</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70388-shameonyou.gif[/img] ((noh lissen to dem yahh Dr. J)) [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]..but still, come and indulge us any how....

                          To anyone, not just Dr.J
                          I guess the bigger question is, seeing that he committed suicide, would you say he forfeited receiving grace because he killed himself?
                          </div></div>

                          Another perspective from GotQuestions.Org. I was actually trying to find a specific scripture and came across this. Will post it if I find it.

                          "What is the Christian view of suicide? What does the Bible say about suicide?"

                          According to the Bible, whether a person commits suicide is not what determines whether he or she gains entrance into heaven. If an unsaved person commits suicide, he or she has done nothing but “expedite” his or her journey to the lake of fire. However, the person who committed suicide will ultimately be in hell for rejecting salvation through Christ, not because he or she committed suicide. The Bible mentions five specific people who committed suicide: Abimelech (Judges 9:54), Saul (1 Samuel 31:4), Saul's armor-bearer (1 Samuel 31:4-6), Ahithophel (2 Samuel 17:23), Zimri (1 Kings 16:18), and Judas (Matthew 27:5). All of them were wicked, evil, sinful men (not enough is said regarding Saul's armor-bearer to make a judgment as to his character). Some consider Samson an instance of suicide (Judges 16:26-31), but Samson's goal was to kill the Philistines, not himself. The Bible views suicide as equal to murder – that’s what it is – self-murder. God is the One who is to decide when and how a person should die. To take that power into your own hands, according to the Bible, is blasphemy to God.

                          What does the Bible say about a Christian who commits suicide? I do not believe that a Christian who commits suicide will lose salvation and go to hell. The Bible teaches that from the moment a person truly believes in Christ, he or she is eternally secure (John 3:16). According to the Bible, Christians can know beyond any doubt that they possess eternal life no matter what happens. “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God” (1 John 5:13). Nothing can separate a Christian from God’s love! “For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 8:38-39). If no “created thing” can separate a Christian from God’s love, and even a Christian who commits suicide is a “created thing,” then not even suicide can separate him from God’s love. Jesus died for all of our sins...and if a true Christian were to, in a time of spiritual attack and weakness, commit suicide - that would be a sin that Jesus died for.

                          This is not to say that suicide is not a serious sin against God. According to the Bible, suicide is murder; it is always wrong. I would have serious doubts about the genuineness of faith of anyone who claimed to be a Christian yet committed suicide. There is no circumstance that can justify someone, especially a Christian, taking his or her own life. Christians are called to live their lives for God – the decision on when to die is God’s and God’s alone. Perhaps a good way to illustrate suicide for a Christian would be from the Book of Esther. The Persians had a law that anyone who came before the king uninvited could be put to death unless the king extended his scepter towards the person - indicating mercy. Suicide for a Christian would be forcing your way in to see the King instead of waiting for Him to summon you. He will point His scepter towards you, sparing your eternal life, but that does not mean He is happy with you. Although it is not describing suicide, the Bible verse 1 Corinthians 3:15 is probably a good description of what happens to a Christian who commits suicide: “He himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.”

                          Source </div></div>

                          [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img]See, I have an issue with quite a few of his/her viewpoints..sounds slanted to me..As CEW says and incidentally, I agree with this;
                          I really don't believe anyone can answer that question with absolute certainty either way,

                          Do we really understand the mercy of God? or are we examining his mercy through the scope of our limited human mind/heart? [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img]


                          I am thinking...do you smell smoke?

                          FKA-DC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Can a person fall from grace?

                            Your point Silent_River and CEW's is exactly why I posted that other perspective when I came across it. We (human) cannot and will not understand the extent of God's grace and mercy. To us, we believe it's extended only in life. How many of us know what goes on after death? I don't. I've learned to stop trying to figure out what God has done, is doing and will do.
                            I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had absolutely no other place to go. -- Abraham Lincoln

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Can a person fall from grace?

                              <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style='font-size: 14pt'> The Bible teaches that from the moment a person truly believes in Christ, he or she is eternally secure (John 3:16 According to the Bible, Christians can know beyond any doubt that they possess eternal life no matter what happens. “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,</span>

                              So You want to tell me that this author really believe that a

                              christian can do anything and then end up the same place as

                              those who try and us successful at keeping Gods laws, as long as he really believe?

                              So you mean that this author really belueve that if a christian really beileve in God,he can do such an act as commit suicide?

                              You mean that he does not rely on God ,but take his life instead,and still believe in God at that time?

                              He/she was either drunk hwen he was writiung this or he does not really belueve the tennets of Christianity.

                              No wonder they practice so much deviant behavior and bring dusrepute to the religion. </div></div>

                              not drunk doc, just sounds like they are leaning towards the Calvanistic view IMO..
                              I am thinking...do you smell smoke?

                              FKA-DC

                              Comment

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